Stuff it, I built a Kiln properly

[Private1]

Hey all,

In another thread I was asking about buying a tobacco kiln/fermentation unit.

After much discussion,I said stuff it and built one with Dad over a few hours.

1.2 Meter tall, 450MM Deep and wide.
Triple siliconed on the inside, 18MM Plywood, for insulation, door seals lined over the inside, and sealed the joins with stain.

Clips on door are TIGHT, I have to squeeze the box to close it, 200% airtight!

Never built one before, but pretty stoked with this one.

Need to get a crockpot and some electronics to monitor the environment, but the hard bit is done!

 

[Davo]

I dunno bro...you should have just purchased that expensive one from overseas

 

[Private1]

Hahahah, yea mate, looks pretty good too I think, and that ply is THICK, its going to be easy to control temp in there.

 

[Private1]

I hope its big enough, we'll just need to put some racks in there, heating element+thermostat, hydrometer, and we're away laughing

 

[Private1]

Right got it figured out:

Its called "The Pirates Guncase" (complements to my mate for the name!)

Humidity generator:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005001644614205.html

Temperature generator:
Any old crock pot, and a small fan to keep things circulating.

Controller: (all in one)

INKBIRD Temperature and Humidity Controller ITC-608T

INKBIRD ITC-608T is a 3-in-1 multifunctional temperature and humidity controller with 12 individual temperatures for 12 time slots. It is widely used for homebrew, fermentation, Greenhouse, terrarium, reptile rising, planting, meat storage, cooking and etc. [lang2] Product video Main Features...

inkbird.shop

Humidifier goes on top so we can monitor water levels, use holesaw to cut hole in top for the pipe.

Crockpot on bottom, with fan beside it pointing up.

Temperature+Humidity probes in center middle.

Attach fan and crock pot to temp slot on controller.
Attach humidity generator to humidity slot on controller.

Set and forget, no jars or bags required!

 

[Davo]

Sounds like you are on you way to having a flue chamber set up too. Maybe ensure any components you purchase that are going inside of the box can handle the 70-80c of the final stage of flue curing just incase? Like if that helps you choose between one product over another - also not sure about ply and silicon at that temp either. One of the seasoned hands could weigh in here I guess

 

[deluxestogie]

Nice box. What do you mean by "Triple siliconed on the inside..."? What insulation are you using?

Bob

 

[LeftyRighty]

I started with a 2-inch foam board box kiln, then finally found a discarded upright freezer for a kiln.
What I've learned.

Humidity generator is not needed. Water in the crockpot will provide all the moisture you need, even with the lid just VERY slightly offset. Actually, a drainage hole in the bottom of the kiln may prove beneficial. Even with great insulated walls of the box, you may find condensation forming. So, when packing leaf in the kiln, bundle them so they don't touch the walls, or you'll find a few super soggy leaves.
Humidity gauge or controller are also unnecessary. Since you'll need to open and refill the crockpot with water every 2-3 days, all you'll need to do is touch the leaves to know if they are in proper case. Initially, open the kiln once a day to check the leaf, until you're confident you have the correct balance of heat/RH.
When adding water, use HOT tap water. Putting cold water in a hot crockpot will crack the crockpot (I learned that the hard way - had to buy a new crockpot).
Put a small hole or pipe top-and-bottom of the kiln to ventilate the off-gasses & ammonia from the fermentation process. I used a 1/2-inch pipe. Yes, you'll lose some heat/moisture -but, it is amazing how fast the humidity builds up and this helps control the RH. Plus, that beautiful aroma tells you the process is working..

Everyone makes such a big deal about controlling the humidity or maintaining that 60-70% RH during fermentation - OVERKILL.
This is about keeping the leaves in a proper case - not crispy-crunchy and not soggy wet. Just touch the leaf, if you can lightly squeeze the leaf, you're good. Also, if the crockpot goes dry, and leaves are dry, no harm done, fix it and move on.

The worst thing to do is to get the leaf too wet. Remember, nicotine and most the aroma/flavor alkaloids are water-soluable. If the leaf gets drippy wet, you're losing the best of the tobacco.

If using the kiln for flue-curing, no added water is needed. Green leaf has all the moisture needed. After the leaf yellows, it's all about removing moisture and drying, and cooking it to destroy enzymes.

 

[Private1]

Nice box. What do you mean by "Triple siliconed on the inside..."? What insulation are you using?

Bob

Thanks Bob, by triple siliconed, I mean I have sealed all the joins of the box 3 times ln the inside, to ensure its a air tight seal.

The box its self is 18MM plywood, so very thick plywood, no additional insulation.

 

[Private1]

I started with a 2-inch foam board box kiln, then finally found a discarded upright freezer for a kiln.
What I've learned.

Humidity generator is not needed. Water in the crockpot will provide all the moisture you need, even with the lid just VERY slightly offset. Actually, a drainage hole in the bottom may prove beneficial. Even with great insulated walls of the box, you may find condensation forming. So, when packing leaf in the kiln, bundle them so they don't touch the walls, or you'll find a few super soggy leaves.
Humidity gauge or controller are also unnecessary. Since you'll need to open and refill the crockpot with water every 2-3 days, all you'll need to do is touch the leaves to know if they are in proper case. Initially, open the kiln once a day to check the leaf, until you're confident you have the correct balance of heat/RH.
When adding water, use HOT tap water. Putting cold water in a hot crockpot will crack the crockpot (I learned that the hard way - had to buy a new crockpot).
Put a small hole or pipe top-and-bottom of the kiln to ventilate the off-gasses & ammonia from the fermentation process. I used a 1/2-inch pipe. Yes, you'll lose some heat/moisture -but, it is amazing how fast the humidity builds up and this helps control the RH. Plus, that beautiful aroma tells you the process is working..

Everyone makes such a big deal about controlling the humidity or maintaining that 60-70% RH during fermentation - OVERKILL.
This is about keeping the leaves in a proper case - not crispy-crunchy and not soggy wet. Just touch the leaf, if you can lightly squeeze the leaf, you're good. Also, if the crockpot goes dry, and leaves are dry, no harm done, fix it and move on.

The worst thing to do is to get the leaf too wet. Remember, nicotine and most the aroma/flavor alkaloids are water-soluable. If the leaf gets drippy wet, you're losing the best of the tobacco.

If using the kiln for flue-curing, no added water is needed. Green leaf has all the moisture needed. After the leaf yellows, it's all about removing moisture and drying, and cooking it to destroy enzymes.

Hi LeftyRighty, thanks for this, I'll certainly take your advice, but if I wanted to go overkill etc, I hope you won't take offense!

I want this to be as automated as possible, and installing all the controllers / electronics on thermostats/humitistats sounds pretty cool.

However the idea of a crockpot only sounds pretty inticing.....

I'm not sure I'd trust myself to estimate temperature and humidity by touch and feel just yet either.

Perhaps I'm overthinking this.

 

[Davo]

Are you thinking of hanging leaf or misting leaf and placing it inside containers/boxes/bags?

 

[deluxestogie]

18MM plywood

That's thinner than 3/4" thick. My kiln walls are 2" (~5cm) of XPS foam, which works okay, but could really use a bit more insulation.

Bob

 

[Davo]

That's thinner than 3/4" thick. My kiln walls are 2" (~5cm) of XPS foam, which works okay, but could really use a bit more insulation.

Bob

I’m sure he could easily add more insulation like the xps boards to the inside of the box, though if 50mm thick it would reduce the usable internal dimensions of kiln (allowing for crock pot) to roughly 2’x 1’ x1’.

do you have any lining between your xps board and the interior chamber?

 

[Private1]

Hi Davo, I wanted to do the whole thing is one big box, but I suppose jars and bags are easy enough!

And Deluxestogie, that's some super serious insulation! I'll try with what I've made for now, if its not as efficient as I'd like I'll definitely line the inside!

 

[deluxestogie]

o you have any lining between your xps board and the interior chamber?

Deluxestogie's Endoskeletal Wood Tobacco Kiln / Flue-cure chamber

PART 1 of 4 Endoskeleton. The foam board goes on the outside. Caveat The wood-built kiln discussed here has several advantages over using a dead, upright freezer for a kiln, but will require more work to complete, and will certainly cost more. it weighs significantly less it can be sized to...

fairtradetobacco.com

Bob

 

[LeftyRighty]

My above post was mostly about RH or humidity.
Now, what I learned about heat.

I've got a few pounds of cigar tobacco in kiln now, in it's sixth week of fermenting, and I'll probably go a couple more weeks. I will then let some rest a few months before rolling, storing most in Don's vapor proof bags to mellow for a year plus. I'm a cigarette smoker, so cigars are just an experiment.

Anyway, about fermenting - I wait until the air-cured tobacco is fully cured in my shed, dry stems, and a few rainy autumn days to start them coming back into case, so the leaf can be carefully handled.
I have a Ranco ETC-11100 temperature controller, set at 122-128 deg, hot enough to prevent mold, but not too hot to destroy the enzymes needed for long term mellowing of the tobacco.
I put strings of near-dry leaf in the kiln, initially with crockpot full of water and no lid, for a few hours to bring into case, then more strings. When I've got all back into case, and kiln is full, will tie cord around to bundle them so they're not touching the walls of the kiln. Then set on the crockpot lid, very slightly offset to maintain RH.
Now, I just check every 2-3 days to keep water in the crockpot, for 4-6 weeks, usually a couple weeks past the initial stench/odor from the ferment. Then de-rib, bag for storage until ready to shred & roll cigs.

For flue-curing, I will stack the leaves in a piles about a foot high, and let them rest for a day or two, to limp up or wilt some. Then they go into the kiln starting at 100-105 degrees for a day. NO WATER in the crockpot. Then re-stack, moving outer leaf to middle of the stack, bumping temp to 105-110, for a day or two, or longer if needed until most the leaf lamina has yellowed. Sometimes, depending how ripe the leaf is, I've had to bump the temp to 110-115.
Then it's 115-120 for the leaf veins to yellow. Each time, re-stacking the piles.
Now, start bumping temp 15-20 deg each day, re-stacking each time, until 165 deg for a day, and all leaf is dry.
Now, set temp to 125 deg, fill the crockpot with water, re-stack twice a day, until all is back in case. De-rib, bag for storage until ready to shred & roll cigs.
During the initial yellowing phase, If I see mold on any leaf or stems, I'll pull that leaf and trash it. If I get a lot of mold showing up, I bump the temp to 125 deg, add water to the crockpot to keep leaf from drying green, and shuffle/re-stack the pile a couple times a day, until all leaf has yellowed. Worked for me !

 

[Private1]

Hey all, can someone describe the taste/quality of kilned vs air cured tobacco?

I understand its just a faster process of aging the leaf aye?

 

[deluxestogie]

Is there any way to mellow out shredded tobacco ?

Muggs, Is you burley from the 2018 season? Has it been kilned? If the answers are yes and no, respectively, then you're just smoking the stuff way too soon. Bob Yes,the burley turn dark drown.smells wonderful.im smoking this straight, An it make me cough, an has an bitter after taste. I...

fairtradetobacco.com

 

[Private1]

Thanks Stogie

 

[Dib chamoun]

My above post was mostly about RH or humidity.
Now, what I learned about heat.

I've got a few pounds of cigar tobacco in kiln now, in it's sixth week of fermenting, and I'll probably go a couple more weeks. I will then let some rest a few months before rolling, storing most in Don's vapor proof bags to mellow for a year plus. I'm a cigarette smoker, so cigars are just an experiment.

Anyway, about fermenting - I wait until the air-cured tobacco is fully cured in my shed, dry stems, and a few rainy autumn days to start them coming back into case, so the leaf can be carefully handled.
I have a Ranco ETC-11100 temperature controller, set at 122-128 deg, hot enough to prevent mold, but not too hot to destroy the enzymes needed for long term mellowing of the tobacco.
I put strings of near-dry leaf in the kiln, initially with crockpot full of water and no lid, for a few hours to bring into case, then more strings. When I've got all back into case, and kiln is full, will tie cord around to bundle them so they're not touching the walls of the kiln. Then set on the crockpot lid, very slightly offset to maintain RH.
Now, I just check every 2-3 days to keep water in the crockpot, for 4-6 weeks, usually a couple weeks past the initial stench/odor from the ferment. Then de-rib, bag for storage until ready to shred & roll cigs.

For flue-curing, I will stack the leaves in a piles about a foot high, and let them rest for a day or two, to limp up or wilt some. Then they go into the kiln starting at 100-105 degrees for a day. NO WATER in the crockpot. Then re-stack, moving outer leaf to middle of the stack, bumping temp to 105-110, for a day or two, or longer if needed until most the leaf lamina has yellowed. Sometimes, depending how ripe the leaf is, I've had to bump the temp to 110-115.
Then it's 115-120 for the leaf veins to yellow. Each time, re-stacking the piles.
Now, start bumping temp 15-20 deg each day, re-stacking each time, until 165 deg for a day, and all leaf is dry.
Now, set temp to 125 deg, fill the crockpot with water, re-stack twice a day, until all is back in case. De-rib, bag for storage until ready to shred & roll cigs.
During the initial yellowing phase, If I see mold on any leaf or stems, I'll pull that leaf and trash it. If I get a lot of mold showing up, I bump the temp to 125 deg, add water to the crockpot to keep leaf from drying green, and shuffle/re-stack the pile a couple times a day, until all leaf has yellowed. Worked for me !

Please can you show me and teach me how to build my.klin.and how to.install everything.