Processing with vinegar

[saman_ghaderian]

Thanks so much, im from iran. Not good in english writing, yes i do pipe tobacco just for passion. I like to know more about that, i'll appreciate for ur help

Edit: I’m sorry, English please. We have no way of knowing if you are posting spam, which isn’t allowed.

Hello Meysam. Use Google Translate to write a good text in English.

 

[TigerTom]

I found this posted on pipesmagazine.com by Tad Gage.

McClelland produces hundreds of blends, from straight Virginias to Oriental mixtures to aromatics. The ketchup/barbecue sauce/currant/raisin flavor is characteristic only of their heavily stoved, caked and sliced tobaccos such as Dark Star, Christmas Cheer or Blackwoods Flake. This is a direct result of the intense and intentional stoving process used for selected blends, but is by no means "characteristic" of McClelland blends. It is also a completely natural occurance caused by the stoving, aging and caking process, and something that frequently occurs with Virginia tobaccos over the course of many years of tin aging. It is not contrived by the use of flavorings or any artificial processes.

While many people enjoy the McClelland blends that feature this fruity intensity developed through aging and stoving, it is by no means "characteristic" of McClelland blends that employ Virginia tobaccos

 

[deluxestogie]

That is contrary to my experience with McClelland blends, such as all the several "Frogmorton" blends, the "Grand Oriental" blends, and others. Ketchup. They are all now extinct. I have never noticed a vinegar taste from my own stoving, pressing, aging, etc.

Bob

 

[Charly]

I agree with Bob, a lot of McClelland tobaccos has the ketchup smell, not only there virginia flakes.
If it was only the aging and pressing-stoving method, then other brands would have the ketchup smell. Which is not the case.

 

[burge]

Dons Lemon had a flowery essence when pressed and exposed to heat. That was a unique taste Fruity it was good That was from about 3 months being ad pressed.

 

[saman_ghaderian]

Edit: I’m sorry, English please. We have no way of knowing if you are posting spam, which isn’t allowed.

Hello Meysam. Use Google Translate to write a good text in English.

Sure. We respect you and your team.

 

[logs]

Casing red VA with acetic acid will certainly give you a vinegar smell and a tang to the leaf but even still it doesn't fully approximate the BBQ/ketchup aroma that McClelland had. There are several commercial blenders who have tried to copy McClelland and haven't succeeded. If it was just about matured tobacco with some vinegar then anyone could do it. Having said that, I believe McClelland did indeed use vinegar/acetic acid as part of their casing; however, they most certainly had some other tricks up their sleeves for getting the famous McClelland smell.

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum, @logs. Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum.

Bob

 

[bluewalls]

I’m not familiar with the McClelland smell. I only had one tin of Frog Morton years ago, and I don’t remember smelling ketchup or vinegar, but perhaps I was just not paying attention to the smell at the time. I was thinking about this though. If you want a ketchup smell, why not try... ketchup? So I looked at the ingredients for a couple of ketchup brands. Perhaps there is stuff in there you would not want in a casing. You could try some individual ingredients. For example, tomato purée, distilled vinegar, corn syrup. Dilute with water and use as a casing or topping. Seems weird, but maybe it could work.

There is also a such thing as tomato vinegar, made from tomatoes, which apparently has a subtle tomato flavor and might be worth trying.

 

[logs]

I’m not familiar with the McClelland smell. I only had one tin of Frog Morton years ago, and I don’t remember smelling ketchup or vinegar, but perhaps I was just not paying attention to the smell at the time. I was thinking about this though. If you want a ketchup smell, why not try... ketchup? So I looked at the ingredients for a couple of ketchup brands. Perhaps there is stuff in there you would not want in a casing. You could try some individual ingredients. For example, tomato purée, distilled vinegar, corn syrup. Dilute with water and use as a casing or topping. Seems weird, but maybe it could work.

There is also a such thing as tomato vinegar, made from tomatoes, which apparently has a subtle tomato flavor and might be worth trying.

Frog Morton had only a little bit of the McClelland smell. The straight VA blends were the ones most famous for it. It's quite intense; you can't smell anything of the natural leaf until it dries out quite a bit. It's not really ketchup aroma, strictly speaking. Maybe more of a BBQ sauce. Anyway, actual ketchup might work as a casing... who knows? I'm sure someone has tried it in an effort to recreate the McClelland stink.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I’m not familiar with the McClelland smell. I only had one tin of Frog Morton years ago, and I don’t remember smelling ketchup or vinegar, but perhaps I was just not paying attention to the smell at the time. I was thinking about this though. If you want a ketchup smell, why not try... ketchup? So I looked at the ingredients for a couple of ketchup brands. Perhaps there is stuff in there you would not want in a casing. You could try some individual ingredients. For example, tomato purée, distilled vinegar, corn syrup. Dilute with water and use as a casing or topping. Seems weird, but maybe it could work.

There is also a such thing as tomato vinegar, made from tomatoes, which apparently has a subtle tomato flavor and might be worth trying.

I know I won't be trying this. I think most ketchup has onion, too. You gave me a flashback to these onion flavored Indonesian candies I had back in 1986.

 

[Danny M]

Despite it having been a tightly held McClelland secret, I am wondering if anyone has any insight into the use of vinager when processing pipe tobaccos. I have searched the forum threads but only find it being used against mold, and lightly in one casing.

That's it. McClelland blends always tasted like ketchup, because they used vinegar as an antifungal.

Bob

I've used Apple Cider Vinegar with a little Cinnamon and Honey for a Virginia topping and it was pretty good.

~Darin

Pardon the French but this sounds nasty as hell. “Ketchup” flavored tobacco???

 

[deluxestogie]

My previous statement was flippant. Most of the McClellan pipe blends that I smoked were wonderful. But I would have to allow them to air a bit. The flavor of the tobacco was delicious. The initial "pouch aroma" was always suggestive of vinegar. Pipe smoker forums seemed to latch on to the "ketchup" notion, and I sort of agree. But not to worry. They are out of business, despite many successful and popular blends. Assorted market forces (and escalating retail prices due to escalating taxes) did them in.

Bob

 

[Danny M]

My previous statement was flippant. Most of the McClellan pipe blends that I smoked were wonderful. But I would have to allow them to air a bit. The flavor of the tobacco was delicious. The initial "pouch aroma" was always suggestive of vinegar. Pipe smoker forums seemed to latch on to the "ketchup" notion, and I sort of agree. But not to worry. They are out of business, despite many successful and popular blends. Assorted market forces (and escalating retail prices due to escalating taxes) did them in.

Bob

Not to worry, I’ve had some pipe blends that I wish I had ketchup to put on it. That’s about the only thing that could help the taste.

 

[TigerTom]

Not to worry, I’ve had some pipe blends that I wish I had ketchup to put on it. That’s about the only thing that could help the taste.

 

[bluewalls]

That is contrary to my experience with McClelland blends, such as all the several "Frogmorton" blends, the "Grand Oriental" blends, and others. Ketchup. They are all now extinct. I have never noticed a vinegar taste from my own stoving, pressing, aging, etc.

Bob

Hey, I have to wonder, have you tried putting sugar on tobacco and letting it age a couple years? Maybe that would produce vinegar. McClelland has said they aged their tobaccos for a number of years before selling. Maybe they coated it in sugar first.

 

[deluxestogie]

Give it a try, and let us know how it turns out (in 2026).

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Hey, I have to wonder, have you tried putting sugar on tobacco and letting it age a couple years? Maybe that would produce vinegar. McClelland has said they aged their tobaccos for a number of years before selling. Maybe they coated it in sugar first.

A lot of companies put sugar in their tobacco, but only MacLelland smells like vinegar. I don't think we can attribute it to some expert mode of fermentation.

 

[bluewalls]

A lot of companies put sugar in their tobacco, but only MacLelland smells like vinegar. I don't think we can attribute it to some expert mode of fermentation.

Yes. I was under the impression that most other companies don’t age their tobacco for years before selling.

Give it a try, and let us know how it turns out (in 2026).

Bob

I will try.

 

[tullius]

onion flavored Indonesian candies

Now see, I would try these..

I was under the impression that most other companies don’t age their tobacco for years before selling

That would be an incorrect impression: even the dip & chew manufacturers age tobacco for years before blending.



Maybe it would be helpful (or not) to reference this thread here