Will fermenting green, dried Rustica leaves turn them brown?

[Mazdaman]

I’ve been harvesting small, mature Rustics tobacco leaves that are green and have dried green. Will fermenting these turn them brown, eventually? Thanks.

 

[Juxtaposer-]

I would be interested in seeing “candela” rustica being used. It is possible that these would suit your needs well, even perhaps preferably. Regarding your options for eliminating the chlorophyl I must leave this to others to say.

 

[Rotgut]

Last year I shredded rustica leaves that had dried green, put them in glass jars and fermented them in my oven at 50°C for about a month. All of them turned brown but none of it is good tobacco for smoking. The smell of cat piss doesn't seem to go away if rustica doesn't color cure properly.

 

[deluxestogie]

I grew N. rustica only one season. It was the Sacred Cornplanter variety (seed saved in a museum). Any of the leaves that dried green prior to color-cure were vile. I aged them—vile. I fermented them in my kiln for 2 months—vile. I cooked them into Cavendish—vile.

Bob

 

[johnny108]

Sun curing really helps keep them from drying green.
It’s easier if stalk harvested and sun cured on the stalk.

 

[StoneCarver]

This makes me curious how eastern woodlanders cured their tobacco prior to colonization. Leaf cure, stalk cure, sun cure, something else entirely?

 

[Kushtaka]

This makes me curious how eastern woodlanders cured their tobacco prior to colonization. Leaf cure, stalk cure, sun cure, something else entirely?

I would also like to know. I know there are some old books on tobacco cultivation but from reading here it sounds like most knowledge on rustica cultivation has been lost. I am curious if anybody knows of books from places that actually cultivate and use rustica. Maybe on thuoc lao production from Vietnam, mapacho production from South America or mahorka production from Russia.

 

[deluxestogie]

As linked in our Index of Key Forum Threads:

Buffalo Bird Woman's Tobacco Garden

Nearly 100 years ago, an anthropologist interviewed Buffalo Bird Woman, a very old member of the Hidatsa Indian tribe. The lengthy material was published in 1917. I have excerpted the chapter on tobacco, which discusses their cultivation and harvesting practices. The variety of tobacco has...

forum.wholeleaftobacco.com

Bob

 

[Kushtaka]

Thanks Bob. I had read that post and excerpt browsing around. It was quite interesting and describes stalk curing after the blossoms were all harvested. From the description of white flowers I assumed it was not Nicotiana Rustica but likely Nicotiana Alata or Nicotiana Quadrivalis being grown by the Hidatsas.

 

[deluxestogie]

Nicotiana Quadrivalis

Yes.

Bob

 

[vktr]

I grew N. rustica only one season. It was the Sacred Cornplanter variety (seed saved in a museum). Any of the leaves that dried green prior to color-cure were vile. I aged them—vile. I fermented them in my kiln for 2 months—vile. I cooked them into Cavendish—vile.

Bob

Four years ago when I started growing tobacco (Aztec Wild) I didn't know anything about curing and my leaves dried green. Next winter I tried to smoke them. They were harsh but good, no vile cat piss taste or smell. I have a very small batch of green Aztec leaves this year: small ones that could't cure (I should have thrown them away) and some from my unsuccessful attempts to cure them at elevated temperatures. I'll chuck them in the kiln in a week and see how that goes. Just another experiment.

 

[Juxtaposer-]

Looking at how candela is color cured I would suggest experimenting with the toasting of leaf that is mistakingly green.

 

[StoneCarver]

They were harsh but good, no vile cat piss taste or smell.

In my experience, how they are grown makes a difference. Last year, I grew them in poorer and drier soil. All of the leaves color cured on the plant before and during flowering. Those leaves actually tasted very nice without any further aging or anything. This year, I grew them in richer soil (I guess). The leaves did grow bigger but after color curing do have that characteristic cat piss smell. I don't smoke it by itself; so it doesn't really bother me.

it sounds like most knowledge on rustica cultivation has been lost.

Imo, that is the case. For years, I've been involved with the native community here in the southeast. Largely, nobody remembers anything. They aren't even aware that what used to be grown prior to colonization, N. rustica, is a different variety than what they are aware of today, N. tobacum. A lot of them have worked on tobacco farms and have commercially grown N. tobacum but that doesn't imply cultural continuity. I get why they would like to think that it does though. The only thing I'm aware of is that people prior to colonization would hang their tobacco from the ceilings of their lodges for about a year prior to smoking. I think they stalk harvested but I can't be sure. So, I'd like to fill in the gaps of my knowledge/memory of how they cured it but that may not be possible.

 

[johnny108]

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is documentation on Rustica production in Russian, as the Soviet Union used them for cigarettes.
However, as soon as the Berlin Wall came down, western cigarettes took over the market. Was this from slick marketing, or simple customer preference?
Probably both.
As for indigenous peoples traditional methods?
Very little seems to have survived.