Casing and roasting oriental for cigs.

[chillardbee]

This year is the first year growing oriental varieties. I've already tried bursa ans samson just as an "as is" with out aging, roasting, or casing with my invert/glycrine mix and I have to say that I enjoyed the taste very much despite that it was only just finished curing. I found that it had a nice spice to it and an unexpected full flavour to it that I really enjoyed. There was however a slight rawness to it, which was to be expected for being so recently cured and it also had a slight harshness to it which might of been do to the rawness of it.

With my regular tobacco, I've always put my case on it and dried it in the oven at about 140f so maybe it's not really roasting. I find that this helps reduce the harshness and this is baccy that hasn't even been kilned. So, my question is, will casing and drying in the oven reduce the full flavour of the oriental. I'm thinking that a mild casing and letting it dry slowly that the casing itself will help get rid of the rawness. I like the flavour of the oriental so much that having it at a 25% in any of my blends will give me the full flavour and taste and might reduce the rawness as well. How do you guys treat your oriental for cigarette blends? how much do you blend into your blends when going for a full flavour baccy?

I thought that the baccy I blended last year was a good full flavour baccy, which it was, but I never thought it could get better then this. Thanks.

 

[FmGrowit]

How did you cure your oriental? Turkish/Oriental types are typically Sun Cured. This curing method helps cook out the chlorophyll which can cause a "raw" aspect in tobacco. If you did not Sun Cure your leaf and it retains a raw aspect, you'll likely need to kiln, roast or age the leaf.

Turkish/Oriental varieties run the gamut of flavor profiles...from bland to taking a swig from a bottle of perfume. Most of the Turkish I've grown has only been stalk cured with very satisfactory results.

 

[Planter]

I know nothing about cigarettes... but, I found Orientals, esp. Bursa don´t really absorb casings. With a fixative, it may get stuck on the leaf´s surface.
Kilning for 1-2 weeks at 120 F (and not too wet) seems to help the tobacco aroma. I have some Oriental leaf from last year, just aged, not kilned, which burns with a quite amazing perfume, and while it is not really raw or harsh, the smoke is so throat-irritating aromatic, that I wonder if anybody could inhale that.
These days I´m experimenting with "flue curing" some overripe Oriental leaf for sweetness in the pipe. Prilep and Izmir are much smoother to start with, without that throat-irritating effect. The specific smell is there (at least to some extent), so temperatures up to 165 F probably don´t do too much harm. Subsequent kilning seems to add complexity. I didn´t try it with Bursa, yet.

 

[AmaxB]

This is a little off chillardbee but if you can get some seed from GRIN is Virginia type variety you want A-56-N you can flue or air cure. If you grow it, after cure bag it and put it up for 6 plus months. Than kiln at range 122F - 127F -damp for 5 plus weeks. Mix with kiln aged VA Bright 50/50 this makes a great mellow full flavored smoke. Growing 25 plants will get you in the area of 12 pounds frog legged.

 

[chillardbee]

The suncuring is probably whats taken most of the rawness out of it but there's a harshness to it that I can't quite put a finger on it. When I say 'casing" I'm not refering to flavouring but rather an invertsugar and glycerine as a humicant. I'v found it to work well in toning down harshness, getting rid of rawness, and still keep a full flavour. That the casing is put on them and then dried in the oven at about 150F, the heat for even a short time probably has something to do with reducing harshness too. It just seems that if I treated the oriental the way I do my FC and burley, it would still retian the goodness to an appreciable degree.

 

[DGBAMA]

Start with a small batch and see.

I fell into liking the oriental flavor profiles last year, enough that I went from 2 types to 6 this year.

 

[Planter]

How sweet is your Bursa?


My sun-cured maintained a nice amount of sugar, but definitely needs aging. Unlit it´s still more LEAF than TOBACCO, although there´s a lot of aroma already when burned. Does yours have a proper tobacco smell already (unlit)?


You may try putting a small batch slightly moist and tightly rolled in a closed jar into the oven. Keep at about 140 degrees Fahrenheit for a couple of hours, then take out, check the smell, re-arrange and repeat a few times if necessary.


Try smoking it again when it has an appetizing tobacco smell to it.

 

[deluxestogie]

Orientals in Turkey and nearby regions are not only sun-cured, but allowed to go through a sweat in bales within the warehouse. A kiln can serve that purpose.

Bob

 

[Mad Oshea]

The Izmir that I grow is sun cured, then I will put it in the kiln for half the time (a week) It seems to bring on the smooth aged smoke, with out ageing. My Bursa was smaller than the plants Don posted. They were planted closer is why. They did get to the 8' mark, with very nice leaf. Looking forward in the finnished product. They grow very well here in the desert blow sand. I water them every day or they wil wilt at this elevation. Mad-

 

[ArizonaDave]

Orientals in Turkey and nearby regions are not only sun-cured, but allowed to go through a sweat in bales within the warehouse. A kiln can serve that purpose.

Bob

I'm growing the Turkish Ishmir now, I'm looking forward to trying it! I've had Don's Prelep, which I love, but has too many carbs for this diabetic. Hoping the Ishmir will be a better fit for me.

The Izmir that I grow is sun cured, then I will put it in the kiln for half the time (a week) It seems to bring on the smooth aged smoke, with out ageing. My Bursa was smaller than the plants Don posted. They were planted closer is why. They did get to the 8' mark, with very nice leaf. Looking forward in the finnished product. They grow very well here in the desert blow sand. I water them every day or they wil wilt at this elevation. Mad-

Good to know, since you sent me some Bursa seed!

 

[istanbulin]

When I say 'casing" I'm not refering to flavouring but rather an invertsugar and glycerine as a humicant. I'v found it to work well in toning down harshness, getting rid of rawness, and still keep a full flavour. That the casing is put on them and then dried in the oven at about 150F, the heat for even a short time probably has something to do with reducing harshness too. It just seems that if I treated the oriental the way I do my FC and burley, it would still retian the goodness to an appreciable degree.

In the "Marlboro Duplication" thread, the recipe says that both FC and Orientals are cased with a solution consisted of 3% Sucrose, 1% Glucose and 1% Fructose. Required "sugar solution" for casing is 4.8% of the tobacco (by weight), according to the recipe. I don't think commercial manufacturers toast FC and Oriental tobaccos but if it works well for you there's nothing to say.

 

[chillardbee]

In the "Marlboro Duplication" thread, the recipe says that both FC and Orientals are cased with a solution consisted of 3% Sucrose, 1% Glucose and 1% Fructose. Required "sugar solution" for casing is 4.8% of the tobacco (by weight), according to the recipe. I don't think commercial manufacturers toast FC and Oriental tobaccos but if it works well for you there's nothing to say.

I don't toast the baccy but after casing it I put it in the oven to dry (roast) but on low temperature. I don't let it get crispy but let it get to a point where there's still enough moisture that it's easily handled but not dry enough to crumble.

 

[Planter]

I´ve just made a discovery which is likely going to change my approach for a good amount of my leaf... (again, for pipe that is, I can´t speak for cigarettes).


Yesterday I picked a handful of fully yellow, upper leaves from Prilep and Izmir plants. Some was damaged, some had a green half, so I only used the nicely yellow parts of those. I also already removed the fatter stem on a bigger one. Rolled into a sausage, made a ribbon cut.


Dried this in the oven at 50 degrees Celsius / 120 degrees Fahrenheit. (When mostly done I switched the oven off and let it cool down over night. The ribbons went later back from crisp to somewhat flexible without intentional moistening, they must be quite hygroscopic).


The result: An orange-coloured, sweet, complex, spicy and flavourful ready-to-use pipe tobacco with a classic, sweet pipe room note and a distinct incense smell. No rawness, no stink. Quite perfect, slow burn to white ashes. Exactly what I was looking for. Better than most stuff I ever had in a pipe.


No aging or casing. There was a slight tickling on the tip of the tongue like in most good Virginia-based pipe tobaccos. 1-2 weeks of kilning will probably take care of that, I already set some up.


I´m still surprised, it couldn´t be easier than that.


For this purpose, in my climate (Central Europe) the trick seems to be to get Oriental leaf as ripe as possible. (I still have half of it on the plants.)

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Planter, did you try any of the leaf before you put it in the oven? The Izmir I grew this year tasted so good after it was cured I decided not to kiln any... it didn't need it.

 

[Planter]

Jitterbugdude, note that the leaf came directly from the plant, just yellow but otherwise uncured, when I put it into the oven. It dried in there within a few hours. Kind of a speedy flue cure. One would not necessarily expect to get a "tobacco" this way.

It is at least as sweet as my best sun-cured, but already nicely smokable.

The air cured and sun cured I have tried directly after curing were very aromatic, but had a choking effect on me, especially the Prilep.

In my experience, it mellows with time (or kilning), so I put them aside.

Following your recommendation, I still have some Samsun Maden growing, planted late in early summer. I´m looking forward to that one. I hope there´s enough time left, the flower buds are just coming out.