Help me decide on what variety to expand on

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FALaholic

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I've transplanted my seedlings to their own SOLO cups, but keep the seeding try going as a precaution. Well the seeding tray is thriving, and I've got an abundant amount of Havana and Virginia. Wanted to ask you guys what variety should I expand on.
I'm planning on growing for dip and chew, so if that is any indication.
I'm leaning on Virginia only because I don't know enough, as far as taste, for the Havana.
 

DGBAMA

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I would say the Virginia is more universal in its use. Is well suited to about any use of tobacco. And should be easier to cure.. First year for me too so take that with a grain of salt.
 

squeezyjohn

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I've made dip and chew from both virginia and dar air cured type cigar tobacco ... and if you're looking for perfection then I would say that neither variety is perfect for that use:

Virginia has very little rich full bodied taste when chewed, but it does have just about enough nicotine and a nice aroma. On the other hand - with a cigar type like havana is very full bodied but can be very bitter to chew too depending on stalk position and how it's cured.

What you should probably look in to getting seeds for is a good Burley variety in the future. As far as I can tell that's the main type of tobacco used in both chew and dip - it's high enough in nicotine and not too bitter to use in the mouth while having a richness of flavour.

Don't let that put you off continuing with what you have for this year though ... it will probably all be useable. Remember to put that grain of salt you mention in the dip or chew too ... salt is a good flavour enhancer and lowers any taste of bitterness.

Cheers

Squeezy
 

FALaholic

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Squeezy,

Many thanks on that detailed reply. I too am growing Kentucky Burley, and Samsun. Its just that the seeding tray is going crazy with Havana and Virginia. Seeing as that I'll have space for 9 more SOLO cups.
I may add additionally:
1 Burley
4 Havana
4 Virginia
 

Knucklehead

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For dip and chew, the most common varieties are Dark Air and One Sucker. Order a lb. of dark air from Don and play with it. Both Dark Air and One Sucker are very high in nicotine. Workhorse can tell you alot about the One Sucker. He makes a Copenhagen copy with it. I use Dark Air in small proportions in my cigarette blends, tamed down with Maryland. I don't dip or chew. If you don't want to invest so much in something you may not be happy with, I can send you a sample of Dark Air, however, since dip and chew usually involves casing and experimentation, a small sample may not get you very far, that's why I recommended buying a full pound. There are some good recipes in smokeless tobacco sub forum that could help get you started. If you decide to try a sample anyway, shoot me with a PM.

There are several varieties with Havana in the name. Can you narrow it down some? They all have subtle differences. Most of them are cigar varieties.

The best advice I can give you in the long run is to read every single post in every single thread on the entire forum. You will not only answer the majority of your own questions, but can even begin answering the questions of others. I've read every post on the forum and read every new post that comes in. You'll also find more answers to your questions as some of the old hands get tired answering questions that are asked by every newbie that joins up. This is not a condemnation, I did the same thing when I joined. It was when I began searching for answers first that I really began learning things. Then ask informed questions and you'll get alot more responses. Again, not knocking you, just trying to be helpful. Aside from the new flue cure experiments, there is very little that has not been covered already.

Best of luck. If you can't find what you need, ask away.
 

Knucklehead

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Squeezy posted while I was writing. He knows alot more about dip and chew than I ever will or want to. His advice is sound. Jitterbugdude also does a lot of chew.
 

squeezyjohn

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I bow to knucklehead's superior knowledge - dip and chew are rare things here in the UK and I am experimenting with growing and making them here because they are not readily available.

But I would say be very careful of what kind of dark air-cured you are getting ... stalk position is incredibly important as an overly bitter leaf is almost un-workable with ... I have a lot of Don's ligero (3rd priming) dark air cured and unfortunately for my purposes it is far too bitter to be used in a snus recipe in anything more than a minor ingredient to boost nicotine and body. Any more than 20% of the blend and it is like chewing a lump of your own ear-wax!

I don't know about one-sucker having never tried or grown it ... The trade-off with oral tobacco it seems is always between keeping it strong and making it not too bitter to consume. Casings will help with that - but cannot completely mask it. Burley is strong enough to make a good chew and is rarely overly bitter.
 

squeezyjohn

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FALaholic - I cannot believe you are still at the seedling stage! Our season here is so short that it's May-August for growing so I cannot get my head around the fact that you may be planning for a November harvest ... but I suppose you have a very different climate to us over there!

I think the long and short of it is you have to experiment with things ... including the recipes for the kind of oral tobacco you want to make ... the blend of different tobaccos and the recipes you are probably still refining will need messing with and tweaking before you are completely happy.

Virginia varieties are productive and a good one for snus (and therefore probably for dip too) - they are generally weaker than a burley or dark air cured, but if you strip the midrib out and use only the lamina then you get back up to strength with a Virginia.
 

FALaholic

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FALaholic - I cannot believe you are still at the seedling stage! Our season here is so short that it's May-August for growing so I cannot get my head around the fact that you may be planning for a November harvest ... but I suppose you have a very different climate to us over there!

I think the long and short of it is you have to experiment with things ... including the recipes for the kind of oral tobacco you want to make ... the blend of different tobaccos and the recipes you are probably still refining will need messing with and tweaking before you are completely happy.

Virginia varieties are productive and a good one for snus (and therefore probably for dip too) - they are generally weaker than a burley or dark air cured, but if you strip the midrib out and use only the lamina then you get back up to strength with a Virginia.

November, try end of December :D . Yea down here in South Florida, we don't get frosts till early in the new year.

You mentioned stripping the midrib. Are there times that you keep the mid rib? I always thought to remove the mid rib of all tobacco.
 

Knucklehead

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Knucklehead

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November, try end of December :D . Yea down here in South Florida, we don't get frosts till early in the new year.

You mentioned stripping the midrib. Are there times that you keep the mid rib? I always thought to remove the mid rib of all tobacco.

The midrib is ground up and used in most snuff, dip and chew recipes.
 

FALaholic

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In regards to dip. I'm hearing that all dip is fire-cured. I originally was under the impression that it was air-cured.
 

FALaholic

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Knuckle many thanks for the response and the offer. I was thinking of getting a variety pack, then decided against it. Feel I may disappoint myself with what I'm growing, trying to compare it to other varieties.

I wish I could tell you what strain of Havana it is. Unfortunately I got it from another member, from another reputable grow site.
 

FALaholic

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The midrib is ground up and used in most snuff, dip and chew recipes.

Now thats news to me.

Well as far as what to grow for chew and dip. There is no doubt I know what to grow next time around. Its just that I needed something in the ground quick so I had to setting with what I got.

Thanks to other members, I was able to get a few varieties for next grow season, but there are still a few on the list that I could use.
 

Knucklehead

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Knuckle many thanks for the response and the offer. I was thinking of getting a variety pack, then decided against it. Feel I may disappoint myself with what I'm growing, trying to compare it to other varieties.

I wish I could tell you what strain of Havana it is. Unfortunately I got it from another member, from another reputable grow site.

Use this year for comparing, sampling, testing and experimenting. You'll come up with something you like from what you grew this year, but use the time to find what you like best so you'll be ready for next year.
 
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