purpose built drying shed/barn

[smokingsteve]

After many hours of google searching there isn't much info on purpose built small scale tobacco drying sheds. I am searching because I intend during the coming winter months (I live in New Zealand) to build a shed just for drying and curing tobacco.

I understand that they are two different things but I want a space to do both so a shed for drying that also has a kiln built inside it.
Does anyone have a shed like this or any modifications they think would be great to integrate into the build?

I already know I want it to be well insulated (either freezer panels or wood with fiber insulation) I will control the incoming air and temperature with a 12v diesel heater (used for caravans) I will also control the humidity with a humidifier. Thoughts?

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Insulated Shed for Curing Tobacco on the Northern Prairies

This shed was designed primarily to save energy heating it. It's main purpose is curing tobacco; however, structurally it is also intended to handle hanging meat. The outside dimensions are 5'3"x8'. The inside dimensions are 48.5"x85" The shed began with 6 precast concrete footings, supporting...

fairtradetobacco.com

 

[desert_pioneer]

(Before I say anything, sorry, I don't have any useful experience with sheds)

I too have recently had a phase of romanticizing building a shed for air- curing, flue-curing, or even kilning tobacco, although due to where I live (desert), the components of the potential shed I imagined were different. As a result, I "wasted" (and enjoyed) hours of searching up old style tobacco barns, mostly meant for flue-curing. You can find pictures and some articles about old flue-curing barns from the 1860s to probably around the 1960s (the prefabricated metal bulk-curing barns made tobacco barns obsolete, which is probably one big reason there's not much on the subject of small sheds dedicated to tobacco). Apparently, a slave boy in the 1800s had fallen asleep while tending the flames of a flue-curing barn (someone had to be watching at all hours to maintain proper temperature) and tried to reheat the fire with charcoal in a hurry and ended up with bright light-colored tobacco leaves (a good thing, it turned out). Either way, you can also find historical projects/articles on tobacco barns because some people want to document/preserve the once common building as cultural heritage (they have a strong case for why they're relevant/important). I know at least one of those cultural preservation articles had detailed illustrations/floor plans on a old flue-curing barn.

Anyways, on my own search for a small shed/building a shed, I am going to assume that what you envision is pretty small so you may not need a foundation. One of the first major roadblocks to my pipe dream of a personal shed was the requirement of building a foundation (no time, no space for a shed anyways). If you went through the whole effort to build a shed, a temperature/humidity controller would be very helpful in automating the process for you, but one worry I always had is whether a conventional humidifier could withstand temperatures up to 160 F/74 C. Same with whatever heating device your using. In addition, I think many heating appliances would turn themselves off after reaching a certain temperature (although idk what a diesel heater is).

However, if your shed is small enough and insulated well enough, you could maybe envision the tried and tested crock-pot method, which is in the key forums, but with either bigger and/or more slow cookers.

Finally, although I don't mean to discourage your shed idea, I have a feeling most people here would say with all the effort you seem willing to put in, you might be better off just building a foam insulation kiln at a larger scale. For me, I kept on putting off the idea of such a kiln because I liked the shed idea too much just cause "that's how they used to do it", but it's just out of my ability at the moment. However, if you ever go on building a shed, I'll follow your results on it with great interest

 

[desert_pioneer]

Insulated Shed for Curing Tobacco on the Northern Prairies

This shed was designed primarily to save energy heating it. It's main purpose is curing tobacco; however, structurally it is also intended to handle hanging meat. The outside dimensions are 5'3"x8'. The inside dimensions are 48.5"x85" The shed began with 6 precast concrete footings, supporting...

fairtradetobacco.com

D*mn, beat me to first response. I've never seen that thread before.

How much for you to build one and ship it to my house

 

[desert_pioneer]

Does anyone have a shed like this or any modifications they think would be great to integrate into the build?

Also, I may be totally misguided in my idea, but I have thought of buying a plastic shed (won't melt at 165, but it would probably warp inevitably) and then covering the interior with some sort of insulation (like foam board or a spray and then a panel over it) and sealing it together (tape, loctite glue, etc.). Have no idea whether it would work in practice.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

D*mn, beat me to first response. I've never seen that thread before.

How much for you to build one and ship it to my house

It cost me about $2000 canadian to build, so $1.90 should be good.

I'm moving in a month or so.
I will not make my next one so big. For flue curing, I only needed half that space.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I've been running designs through my head for some time now. I think i would build the next one with inside dimensions of 4x4x7 with a small 'L' off to the side that would hold the heater and humidifier, and provide access without having to open the door. Having the heater off to the side will ensure I can have full use of the space for hanging. I would not have foam insulation walls like before. Instead, I would wall it with cement board for fire safety. I'm not sure how to create a vapour seal though. My ventilation pipes would be larger, and have threaded pipe caps for sealing when not in use.

Edit : Cement board comes in 4x8 but it's really heavy. I might use 5'x32" instead for ease of use.

 

[smokingsteve]

(Before I say anything, sorry, I don't have any useful experience with sheds)

I too have recently had a phase of romanticizing building a shed for air- curing, flue-curing, or even kilning tobacco, although due to where I live (desert), the components of the potential shed I imagined were different. As a result, I "wasted" (and enjoyed) hours of searching up old style tobacco barns, mostly meant for flue-curing. You can find pictures and some articles about old flue-curing barns from the 1860s to probably around the 1960s (the prefabricated metal bulk-curing barns made tobacco barns obsolete, which is probably one big reason there's not much on the subject of small sheds dedicated to tobacco). Apparently, a slave boy in the 1800s had fallen asleep while tending the flames of a flue-curing barn (someone had to be watching at all hours to maintain proper temperature) and tried to reheat the fire with charcoal in a hurry and ended up with bright light-colored tobacco leaves (a good thing, it turned out). Either way, you can also find historical projects/articles on tobacco barns because some people want to document/preserve the once common building as cultural heritage (they have a strong case for why they're relevant/important). I know at least one of those cultural preservation articles had detailed illustrations/floor plans on a old flue-curing barn.

Anyways, on my own search for a small shed/building a shed, I am going to assume that what you envision is pretty small so you may not need a foundation. One of the first major roadblocks to my pipe dream of a personal shed was the requirement of building a foundation (no time, no space for a shed anyways). If you went through the whole effort to build a shed, a temperature/humidity controller would be very helpful in automating the process for you, but one worry I always had is whether a conventional humidifier could withstand temperatures up to 160 F/74 C. Same with whatever heating device your using. In addition, I think many heating appliances would turn themselves off after reaching a certain temperature (although idk what a diesel heater is).

However, if your shed is small enough and insulated well enough, you could maybe envision the tried and tested crock-pot method, which is in the key forums, but with either bigger and/or more slow cookers.

Finally, although I don't mean to discourage your shed idea, I have a feeling most people here would say with all the effort you seem willing to put in, you might be better off just building a foam insulation kiln at a larger scale. For me, I kept on putting off the idea of such a kiln because I liked the shed idea too much just cause "that's how they used to do it", but it's just out of my ability at the moment. However, if you ever go on building a shed, I'll follow your results on it with great interest

I have done a fair amount of research on freezer panels and what they can withstand and believe they can handle that sort of heat because they are fireproof at extreme temperatures.
The shed would merely be kept at a steady temperature and humidity something that is hard in my climate in New Zealand last night I had a whole batch of tobacco go moldy so hense why I want a shed that I can control the humidity and temperature. I will also have a kiln inside this shed because my current garage is filled with all sort of other projects and really isn't enough space for crops over 200+ plants I have plenty of land so the space is no issue I was just seeing if anyone had built one before.

 

[smokingsteve]

I have

I've been running designs through my head for some time now. I think i would build the next one with inside dimensions of 4x4x7 with a small 'L' off to the side that would hold the heater and humidifier, and provide access without having to open the door. Having the heater off to the side will ensure I can have full use of the space for hanging. I would not have foam insulation walls like before. Instead, I would wall it with cement board for fire safety. I'm not sure how to create a vapour seal though. My ventilation pipes would be larger, and have threaded pipe caps for sealing when not in use.

I have also played with the idea of cement boards as like you say they are fire proof and easy enough to work with. I wanted a space to access the controls from outside so as not to disturb the temperature and humidity once it is set so I was thinking a waterproof control panel outside. I realise its going to cost heaps but here in New Zealand we are paying $60nzd for 30g of tobacco that tastes like crap so money doesn't bother me as long as I'm not paying the govt taxes on the stuff!

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I have

I have also played with the idea of cement boards as like you say they are fire proof and easy enough to work with. I wanted a space to access the controls from outside so as not to disturb the temperature and humidity once it is set so I was thinking a waterproof control panel outside. I realise its going to cost heaps but here in New Zealand we are paying $60nzd for 30g of tobacco that tastes like crap so money doesn't bother me as long as I'm not paying the govt taxes on the stuff!

I agree. I save thousands a year, every year, not buying pipe tobacco.

I assume you read my build I posted. One thing I want to point out is that the heater ran on light bulbs. There is no need to go with diesel. When it was -30°C, 150W kept the shed a comfortable 15°C. When my controller crapped out on me one time, 900W took it up to 185°F.

 

[desert_pioneer]

I have done a fair amount of research on freezer panels and what they can withstand and believe they can handle that sort of heat because they are fireproof at extreme temperatures.
The shed would merely be kept at a steady temperature and humidity something that is hard in my climate in New Zealand last night I had a whole batch of tobacco go moldy so hense why I want a shed that I can control the humidity and temperature. I will also have a kiln inside this shed because my current garage is filled with all sort of other projects and really isn't enough space for crops over 200+ plants I have plenty of land so the space is no issue I was just seeing if anyone had built one before.

I am not worried about the freezer panels or the shed itself. I am more worried about whatever device you will be using as a humidifier and heater. Fortunately, towards the tail end (when it is nearing 74 degrees C) of the flue-curing process, the humidity aspect is mostly unimportant, but even for kilning, a typical humidifier is probably not geared for operating at even 50 degrees C (the approximate minimum temperature needed to prevent mold).

The same applies to your heater if it will be in the kiln/shed. If it is "outside" blowing heat in, then perhaps it may fare better.

Point is, typical humidifiers and heaters are not meant to be stored or even operating at 30+ temperature at 60+% humidity, and 30 is the low end of what temperature is required in kilning/flue-curing (you're set for air-curing, but all that effort is better suited to finding a way to flue-cure)

(although the main thing I may be missing is New Zealand is probably already humid, so maintaining required humidity levels may not be as difficult)

 

[desert_pioneer]

I agree. I save thousands a year, every year, not buying pipe tobacco.

I assume you read my build I posted. One thing I want to point out is that the heater ran on light bulbs. There is no need to go with diesel. When it was -30°C, 150W kept the shed a comfortable 15°C. When my controller crapped out on me one time, 900W took it up to 185°F.

How big was your shed/enclosed space when using light-bulb heating? (floor sq. area and height is helpful)

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

4'3"x7'x8'... About 225 cubic feet.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I am not worried about the freezer panels or the shed itself. I am more worried about whatever device you will be using as a humidifier and heater. Fortunately, towards the tail end (when it is nearing 74 degrees C) of the flue-curing process, the humidity aspect is mostly unimportant, but even for kilning, a typical humidifier is probably not geared for operating at even 50 degrees C (the approximate minimum temperature needed to prevent mold).

The same applies to your heater if it will be in the kiln/shed. If it is "outside" blowing heat in, then perhaps it may fare better.

Point is, typical humidifiers and heaters are not meant to be stored or even operating at 30+ temperature at 60+% humidity, and 30 is the low end of what temperature is required in kilning/flue-curing (you're set for air-curing, but all that effort is better suited to finding a way to flue-cure)

(although the main thing I may be missing is New Zealand is probably already humid, so maintaining required humidity levels may not be as difficult)

I used one of those rain drop shaped humidifiers in my kiln for a couple years. The temperature was not a problem.

The shed used a homemade humidifier.

 

[desert_pioneer]

4'3"x7'x8'... About 225 cubic feet.

So does that mean a 150 W light heated your shed (225 cubic ft) to 15 degrees C in subzero temperatures? (assuming your shed was insulated)

 

[desert_pioneer]

I used one of those rain drop shaped humidifiers in my kiln for a couple years. The temperature was not a problem.

The shed used a homemade humidifier.

By kiln, do you mean at roughly 50 degrees C? If so, that's good for me, because then I can buy a humidifier with ease.
If you meant flue-curing as well (so 74 degrees) even better.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

So does that mean a 150 W light heated your shed (225 cubic ft) to 15 degrees C in subzero temperatures? (assuming your shed was insulated)

I'm beginning to wonder if you read through the other thread which shows the build. Yes. It was insulated with 6" thick R22 batts, as well as reflective rigid foam boards, R6(?).

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

By kiln, do you mean at roughly 50 degrees C? If so, that's good for me, because then I can buy a humidifier with ease.
If you meant flue-curing as well (so 74 degrees) even better.

The kiln was only used for kilning. It was 3'x3'x4', and I only ran it around 50°C. The water had to be refilled once a week until I switched to kilning in buckets. After the switch, I didn't need a humidifier at all. There's no way it would have been big enough for the shed.

 

[desert_pioneer]

I'm beginning to wonder if you read through the other thread which shows the build. Yes. It was insulated with 6" thick R22 batts, as well as reflective rigid foam boards, R6(?).

if you're talking about the thread that you posted earlier in this thread, no not yet. Technically I should be getting some work done but here I am

 

[desert_pioneer]

The water had to be refilled once a week until I switched to kilning in buckets.

The buckets just spawned a whole new batch of questions I want to ask, but I'll save them for another day (it's late)