San Diego 2019

[Rebeletoh]

Howdy! First actual grow. 50 plants, 19 varieties (won't do that again... Maybe 2-3 varieties next year). Seeded mid January, planted mid April. Sous vide water bath fermentation. Video log over at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIFr_tfkG6XDhTGvgWRDhKA

 

[Rebeletoh]

Took a bunch of pics, many are too large to attach here but I'll try...

 

[Rebeletoh]

Tried crock pot fermentation. It worked but really slow. Moving on to sous vide!

 

[Rebeletoh]

Getting closer to current time.

 

[deluxestogie]

Congratulations.

Bob

 

[Rebeletoh]

Brown widows...I hate spiders.

 

[Rebeletoh]

Pretty much caught up now. I'll try to add more info as I go along. We're working with about 1200 leaves right now with more still on the plants. Have fermented about 100 sand dregs and they actually taste ok. We're fermenting about 600 leaves at the moment that are much higher quality than the dregs... We'll see how that goes!

 

[Rebeletoh]

Congratulations.

Bob

Thank you! This has been a really fun learning experience. Next year should be much more organized and even more fun!

 

[deluxestogie]

We have more fun--and can provide useful commentary--when the pics just dribble in as you go.

Bob

 

[Moth]

Tell me more about the sous vide method?

 

[Patriotguy]

Glad to see you made it here, I was very intrigued by all of your videos and seeing what will work the best for you.

 

[CobGuy]

Very nice grow … thanks for all the pics!

~Darin

 

[Rebeletoh]

Very nice grow … thanks for all the pics!

~Darin

Thank you! I'll keep 'em coming!

 

[Rebeletoh]

Tell me more about the sous vide method?

Our thought process was: big companies use the weight of tobacco and barns to create heat and kickstart fermentation, we don't have enough baccy to make a large bale so we have to get creative. A bunch of leaves are frogged then folded over each other a couple times (first lengthwise, then stacked then widthwise) to increase bulk and decrease overall length. They're placed in a food saver bag and a pretty hefty vacuum is applied to the bag and contents and then their placed in the water bath. We figure the vacuum will mimic (at least a bit) the weight of a bale of tobacco. The sous vide will maintain a constant set temp (123f in this case) that a crock pot won't. The bag, having moist leaves sealed inside will maintain a constant humidity for the leaves... Less fuss to deal with. After a few days of constant pressure, temperature and humidity, the bag is cut open, the leaves are restacked in a different order and they're checked for color and aroma. The first time we tried this with sand dregs, the leaves got maybe a total of 1 week (probly less) of fermentation time but when the bags were opened, a sweet molasses scent filled our noses. The smoke is ridiculously smooth but the tongue and nose of the smoke aren't quite there yet, either because they were dregs, they needed more time or both. Color was pretty dang good but not quite perfect. This current batch has 4 bags and about 600-800 leaves total and we'll be fermenting then in this method for much longer.

 

[GreenDragon]

Love the thought process of your fermentation method. Looks like you got some really nice color on some of those leaves too! May have to borrow the wife’s sous vide machine when she’s not making cheese with it.

 

[deluxestogie]

If we guess that 50 one-pound bags of whole leaf stack up to about 5 feet (typical height of a pilon), and that every 24" x 12" tapered leaf has a surface area of 1.5 square feet, then the 5 foot pile is applying 50 pounds of pressure per 1.5 square feet to the very bottom of the pile--only half that much near the middle. So the bottom gets our estimated 50 pounds per 216 square inches, or about 0.25 psi. That's nearly nothing. A pilon heats in the center, rather than close to the bottom.

The size of a pilon--height and width and length--merely serves as thermal insulation, so that the exothermic reaction of oxidation by intrinsic leaf enzymes can actually raise the temperature in the leaf within the well-insulated center of the pile--and likely only in a sub-tropical 24-hour average temperature environment.

So, drawing a strong vacuum is merely depriving the leaf of a bit of air. I have no idea how that affects the oxidation process, since it's not quite anaerobic. We do know that there is nothing microbial going on in the sous vide.

While I would definitely say that you are not approximating conditions within a pilon, I don't think it comes close to conditions for a Cavendish process. You have invented something entirely new. Bravo! If you find it convenient, and are happy with the outcome, then that is truly all that matters.

Bob

EDIT: As an experiment, you might consider for your next batch including one bag without drawing a vacuum. See if there is any difference with the vacuum-processed leaf--other than the bag might float.

 

[Rebeletoh]

If we guess that 50 one-pound bags of whole leaf stack up to about 5 feet (typical height of a pilon), and that every 24" x 12" tapered leaf has a surface area of 1.5 square feet, then the 5 foot pile is applying 50 pounds of pressure per 1.5 square feet to the very bottom of the pile--only half that much near the middle. So the bottom gets our estimated 50 pounds per 216 square inches, or about 0.25 psi. That's nearly nothing. A pilon heats in the center, rather than close to the bottom.

The size of a pilon--height and width and length--merely serves as thermal insulation, so that the exothermic reaction of oxidation by intrinsic leaf enzymes can actually raise the temperature in the leaf within the well-insulated center of the pile--and likely only in a sub-tropical 24-hour average temperature environment.

So, drawing a strong vacuum is merely depriving the leaf of a bit of air. I have no idea how that affects the oxidation process, since it's not quite anaerobic. We do know that there is nothing microbial going on in the sous vide.

While I would definitely say that you are not approximating conditions within a pilon, I don't think it comes close to conditions for a Cavendish process. You have invented something entirely new. Bravo! If you find it convenient, and are happy with the outcome, then that is truly all that matters.

Bob

EDIT: As an experiment, you might consider for your next batch including one bag without drawing a vacuum. See if there is any difference with the vacuum-processed leaf--other than the bag might float.

I really appreciate the info! We'll definitely try a bag without vacuum!

 

[Patriotguy]

Just thought Id ask how things are going with the fermentation experiments. Very curious to hear about any updates.

 

[Rebeletoh]

Just thought Id ask how things are going with the fermentation experiments. Very curious to hear about any updates.

Just got back from a 2 week vacation. Today is my first day back in the garage. Getting things back up to speed. Everything that was hanging is ready for fermenting, everything that was fermenting is ready for round two and everything that's growing is about ready for harvesting!

 

[Rebeletoh]

I should have a video uploaded to YouTube in the next couple hours... Too big to post here so I'll provide a link when it's finished!