Is "Oily" wrapper actually oily?

[deluxestogie]

I'm requesting that anyone who has a cigar that seems to display an "oily" sheen to run this experiment, and post your results.

Our brains visually determine the nature of materials by how diffuse the specular reflection appears to be. The specular is that zone on a curved surface that concentrates the reflection of ambient light. When it is absent, we perceive a "dull" material. When it is tiny or narrow, with very sharp edges, we perceive a glassy surface. Various gradations in between suggest to our brains what material we are looking at.

With cigar wrapper, I generally consider an "oily" appearing cigar to be the result of excellent wrapper stretch, which simply removes most of the tiny wrinkles from the surface. But sometimes, I think of it as actual "cigar oils", which I suspect is not correct. Most likely, our descriptions of "oily" leaf are metaphorical, yet somehow trick us into believing the metaphor.

Experiment: Place an "oily" cigar onto a piece of coffee filter paper or paper towel overnight. Remove the paper, and allow the paper to fully dry. Report in this thread whether or not you see actual oil remaining on the paper. (Who knows. There may be a Nobel Prize in it.)

Bob

 

[waikikigun]

My guess is cigar specularity could be influenced by oils since they'd fill in the wrapper texture's pits. But even the driest surface can be maximally specular if it's smooth. Hard to imagine a mirror would become more specular if it were oiled up. And specular means mirror-like.

 

[dubhelix]

I always figured “oily” wrapper just had a lot of smashed-up resin from the trichomes on it from the handling and aging process of the leaf.

 

[deluxestogie]

The "bee" in these images is the exact same 3-D model. Altering surface roughness and the specular reflection size and crispness alters how we percieve the "material" it's made of.

Here, the bee--its legs in particular--appears to be made of plastic.

In this version, the bee' surface has a barely detectable specular, and a "rough" surface, suggesting something coarser than plastic.

And finally, this bee has a tight, crisp specular, as well as translucency. So we see it as made of glass.

There is, of course, no object there at all, only math.

Bob

 

[Yvan the terrible]

Glossiness is a perception, water as no oil in it but is glossy. Wet a very dull looking wrapper and it will become very shinny (while it is wet). Your mirror has no way to absorb oils to increase its specularity but your wrapper does. I personally have been wondering if some cigar manufacturers were adding compounds to their wrappers to make them so shinny, it is hard to imagine a leaf after the drying and fermentation process being able to retain much of its glossiness naturally.

 

[deluxestogie]

it is hard to imagine a leaf after the drying and fermentation process being able to retain much of its glossiness naturally.

They do. Commercial ones do. Some of my home-grown does as well. It depends on the variety, priming level, luck of the draw, etc.

2012. Izmir Ozbas

2014 Machu Picchu Havana

2014 Dominican Olor

2015 Hacienda del Cura

2015 Swarr-Hibshman

2016 Florida Sumatra

2016 Corojo 99 (Robaina)

2017 Nostrano del Brenta

2017 Nostrano del Brenta

No oils added.

Bob

 

[Yvan the terrible]

Wow, very interesting, thanks for sharing the pictures. Another thing that I was wondering is how much are the natural sugars of the plant able contribute to the leaf glossiness? Fermentation most contribute converting the carbohydrates into some forms of sugars which would give the leaf some shine?

 

[deluxestogie]

Carbohydrates, both simple and complex, are mostly eliminated during curing, so, in cigar leaf in particular, there is nearly no sugar remaining. These are both oxidized into CO2 and water, as well as converted into simple salts.

On archive.org, you can find: Loew, O: Curing and Fermentation of Cigar Leaf Tobacco, USDA Report #59, Washington, 1899. This is an interesting read. The chemistry is over a century old, but still pretty much holds.

Bob

 

[FmGrowit]

The only noticeable sheen or gloss I've ever seen on wrapper leaves has been on Maduro wrapper, but I'm going to give the other a good look tomorrow. A lot of ripe tobacco will have a gummy, sticky substance on the leaf. Perhaps this gum polishes up to a nice sheen.

 

[MarcL]

I'd guess it's oil of a sort. "Plants use excess energy to make fatty acids and glycerol and combine them to make the triglycerides and store it for later use. Oil is useful for plants because it has more energy by weight than glucose which they store as starch."
The thicker it is the more I need to wash my hands. Some leaf oil comes rite off with a towel.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

We all know your hands turn black when processing un cured leaf. I was destemming a few pounds of air cured and aged kilned Delhi34, and my hands turned black. I never noticed that before, but then again, I may have not processed so much high case leaf in one go before.

What is the black stuff?

 

[deluxestogie]

I suspect that the black goo that gets on your hands when handling raw or fully cured, aged, kilned leaf is from the nicotine solution that subsequently oxidizes on your skin. There's other stuff in that solution, causing it to be sticky. Maybe it's oil, maybe just other compounds that are dissolved.

Anybody do the paper filter test yet? I have not, but plan to with a rosado wrapper. (When I roll one, then smoke one, there is no "resting" time to loll in a filter.)

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Not a part of the experiment, but I did look... I made a small carotte with some KY17 that had an oily sheen. I wrapped the tobacco in white "interleaf" paper that x-ray film comes in. I compressed the crap out of the paper-wrapped tobacco with fiberglass tape, like these made with Goose Creek Red, (that doesn't appear oily.)

I unwrapped the KY17 one and I didn't notice any absorption.

Not conclusive because this paper is not necessarily very absorbent, and I didn't look very hard.

Consider this post anecdotal.

 

[deluxestogie]

If an oily smudge does show up on a wrapping paper, I'm not sure how one might test it to determine if it's oil or just a stain of something else. Ah...the quandaries of science.

Bob

 

[DePasta]

I just don't think there is enough saturation to show up on paper, like a french fry would. I think looking at the countless boxes I have opened over the years and stored cigars in, I don't ever recall any significant oil marks where the cigars came in contact with the box. Only staining I have seen are on highly aged sticks that seems to come from interaction between the moisture and the tobacco. Maybe compressing the leaf under high pressure like a grape press would help extract any oils.

 

[FmGrowit]

I think there would be a stronger likelihood of oil being present in ripe/mature tobacco. The ripest tobacco we stock is Dark Air. I'm going to shred a 1/4 lb. and boil it for a couple hours. If there is any oil, it should separate to the top and should be visible in the glare of light.

 

[TigerTom]

I think there would be a stronger likelihood of oil being present in ripe/mature tobacco. The ripest tobacco we stock is Dark Air. I'm going to shred a 1/4 lb. and boil it for a couple hours. If there is any oil, it should separate to the top and should be visible in the glare of light.

Any results on this experiment?

 

[CobGuy]

I've opened many aged tins of pipe tobacco to find the inner paper completely saturated with oils.
This usually is seen at around 15 years of storage.

 

[CobGuy]

Sorry ... this site is more difficult than any other for pics and I don't know why.
Sometimes it works (as you've seen from other posts of mine) and sometimes not.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I know of what you mean, though... with the paper in the tobacco tins, that is. I would expect that it is all the things in the tobacco coming out such as water, casing, glycol, & glycerin. We can't really make a any conclusion unless it's whole leaf.