Day 5 in the shed:
Bob
Bob
Deluxestogie Grow Log 2026
- Thread starter deluxestogie
- Start date
This Praying Mantis, praying on the leaf of an Ottoman tobacco variety (Izmir-Ozbas), seems to have an independent streak.
Bob
This is my last standing tobacco plant of 2026. Five days ago, when I stalk-cut the Izmir-Ozbas growing in the porch corner bed, I decided to leave this one. It had actually been a near-ground-level sucker from one of the others, but had emerged so early, that I allowed it to grow as a separate stalk. At the time I had cut the others, this one was just beginning to show its first blossom. It stands about 5 feet high.
Because it is so late in a truly abnormal growing season, there are few other blossoms of any sort. Even the weeds have finished blossoming. I decided that this one blossom head might be meaningful to all the critters that depend on blossoms for feeding. Within a day of its first blossom opening, it has been repeatedly visited by bumblebees and at least one hummingbird.
In the greater scheme of things, this is fairly insignificant. But I feel better about having left it standing.
Bob
bbfarmky
Active Member
How do those seeds become genetically viable assuming they have been bagged since first bloom? I realize folks bag to stop cross-pollination and/or to make seed collection easier but all those blooms are in there with no insect access and very cramped quarters for wind pollination.Below is a photo of what I left behind, after stalk-cutting the Long Red and Dutch (Ohio). If you've ever purchased a bag of extra cheap, commercial shredded tobacco, and wondered what was in it, this is the quality of leaf that is used. It's grade is called, "Flyers and Trash."
I used to save all of the salvageable flyers and trash. It grows so low on the stalk, and has often been subjected to rain after it has already color-cured, that it is mild enough to just crumble into a pipe, right out there in the garden, and light it up. Given that every leaf ultimately requires the same labor of handling, regardless of quality, I am more inclined to just leave it in the dirt.
Below is a bagged seed head to which I have already attached a hanging wire, wrapped snugly above the string tie. About half the enclosed pods are already brown. I then cut the bagged head from the stalk, and carry it indoors.
This bagged seed head is now hung inside my back porch, to dry for a few months.
Bob
I trust you have been doing this a long time and have verified that indeed this is successful but I am having trouble connecting the dots.
No need to trust. It's all repeatedly documented in grow logs and other forum threads. Also, for a precious stretch of time, the individual who operated the USDA ARS-GRIN Nicotiana germplasm bank at UNC, (@JessicaNicot) was an active forum member. Her GRIN grow-out grow log is worth reading.
Specific varieties of Nicotiana tabacum are homozygous. That is to say, there should be no hidden, recessive genetic variants, other than spontaneous mutations. (Spontaneous mutations are minimized in collected seed by not saving seed from atypical plants.)
Nicotiana tabacum is primarily self-pollinated (about 92%, prior to a blossom opening). Once the blossom is open, it is not wind pollinated, but is insect pollinated. Bagging prior to blossom opening eliminates cross-pollination, and that is its goal.
Other than transient, epigenetic alterations, Nicotiana tabacum does not significantly alter itself to adapt to growing in a new region (over a span of many human lifetimes). The misunderstanding of gradual, local adaptation arose from the absence of controlling pollination. It took tobacco folks well over a half century after Gregor Mendel to grasp genetics implications for tobacco growing.
Bob
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bbfarmky
Active Member
Reading this just caused my mind to trip over a crack in the sidewalk...self-pollinated (mostly) prior to blossom opening? That sends me back to the drawing board on everything I thought I knew about pollination.
Once again, more reading required.
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Different species of plants have worked out different mechanisms of reproduction. Humans have repeatedly disrupted them.
For example, Winesap apple blossoms always produce sterile pollen. All of the delicious Winesap apples in the world contain apple seeds that are (usually random) hybrids. Many fruit varieties are incapable of self-fertilization, for various reasons.
Most domesticated plants do not adequately disperse their seed (e.g. Nicotiana tabacum seed pods seldom split open spontaneously). This is generally human-caused, often without intent. If a seed head (say, wheat or tobacco) remains intact, it is more likely to be collected. Give that process hundreds of years, and it generally results in poor spontaneous seed dispersal within the domesticated crop.
Bob
For example, Winesap apple blossoms always produce sterile pollen. All of the delicious Winesap apples in the world contain apple seeds that are (usually random) hybrids. Many fruit varieties are incapable of self-fertilization, for various reasons.
Most domesticated plants do not adequately disperse their seed (e.g. Nicotiana tabacum seed pods seldom split open spontaneously). This is generally human-caused, often without intent. If a seed head (say, wheat or tobacco) remains intact, it is more likely to be collected. Give that process hundreds of years, and it generally results in poor spontaneous seed dispersal within the domesticated crop.
Bob
TigerTom
Well-Known Member
Beans often do this as well. They usually self-pollinate before the flowers open, but heavier bees (such as bumblebees) can force the flowers open and affect a cross.
My one remaining Izmir-Ozbas plant was stalk-cut yesterday, and is presently sun-curing. All the others are now finishing-up in the shed.
As you can see above, some of the Long Red from lower on the stalk (toward the roof) have color-cured into stunning, huge leaves, in the range of 30 inches or longer.
And below, the Dutch (Ohio) is progressing well. For all of these hanging stalks, the green color in the stalks themselves (all varieties) indicates that they are continuing to serve as a buffer against the leaves drying green.
Bob
Brown Thumb
Well-Known Member
Looks awesome, I’m burned out growing baccy. If I was retired and not doing anything I might plant another patch again.
I still have garbage bags hanging in the garage but too old to climb up the ladder to get them.
I have Been buying Dons busted up stuff.
Great Deal!!
Just stopped by to say HI.
I still have garbage bags hanging in the garage but too old to climb up the ladder to get them.
I have Been buying Dons busted up stuff.
Great Deal!!
Just stopped by to say HI.
I expect a hard freeze overnight tonight. (It was ~80°F yesterday afternoon.) I wandered through the garden, looking at the various tobacco sucker growth. Nothing looks mature enough to bother with. In the curing shed, the very top leaf of the Long Red is still green, so that will be lost to freezing.
I even inspected the half-dozen small, green tomatoes on my tomato plants. None appeared likely to cure if picked and brought indoors. My okra has two huge pods—way too big to be edible, which may or may not yield viable seed after freezing.
End of season.
Bob
I even inspected the half-dozen small, green tomatoes on my tomato plants. None appeared likely to cure if picked and brought indoors. My okra has two huge pods—way too big to be edible, which may or may not yield viable seed after freezing.
End of season.
Bob
bohdan.zaremba
Well-Known Member
What about pickling/fermenting green tomatoes?
I've done that in the past. The few intact green tomatoes in the garden today would not fill a pint jar. It would be a lot of effort for so scant a return.
Bob
Bob
I just couldn't help myself. I know this is excessive, but Halloween decorations are crucial.
That's it. No wasted pumpkins. No rotting bodies. No skeletons. And...no candy! Just that orange webbing.
It indicates, "Caution: no candy here!" Any kids that show up will have to settle for Lance cream cheese and chives sandwich crackers.
Bob
That's it. No wasted pumpkins. No rotting bodies. No skeletons. And...no candy! Just that orange webbing.
It indicates, "Caution: no candy here!" Any kids that show up will have to settle for Lance cream cheese and chives sandwich crackers.
Bob
bbfarmky
Active Member
I’ll take those crackers! Go great with an ice cold Ale-8!I just couldn't help myself. I know this is excessive, but Halloween decorations are crucial.
That's it. No wasted pumpkins. No rotting bodies. No skeletons. And...no candy! Just that orange webbing.
It indicates, "Caution: no candy here!" Any kids that show up will have to settle for Lance cream cheese and chives sandwich crackers.
Bob
"Let's change all our clocks, instead of adjusting our schedules!"
The secret is in the word, "savings," as though something is somehow saved. I went around my house this morning, and changed all my watches and clocks. But then I realized that I had set them all 1 hour ahead. Tonight we change from "savings" to "losing." I went around my house once more, to set all the time pieces to an hour earlier (to the actual time it should be and should have been). (One of my digital watches with an actual analog dial must be adjusted only forward. So I had to depress its tiny, recessed button with the tip of a wooden clothespin, while I observed the dial s-l-o-w-l-y advancing through the hours. Then the digital 24-hour display needed to be reset, as well as the date. Crazy stuff.)
Standard Time is based on the rotation of Earth, and longitude—worldwide. (I recall driving out to the Grand Canyon from Virginia. When travelling west, I went from Eastern time to Central time to Mountain time, then back to central time (after passing from New Mexico into Arizona, which ignores "Savings" time.) Every benefit has a cost.
Bob
The secret is in the word, "savings," as though something is somehow saved. I went around my house this morning, and changed all my watches and clocks. But then I realized that I had set them all 1 hour ahead. Tonight we change from "savings" to "losing." I went around my house once more, to set all the time pieces to an hour earlier (to the actual time it should be and should have been). (One of my digital watches with an actual analog dial must be adjusted only forward. So I had to depress its tiny, recessed button with the tip of a wooden clothespin, while I observed the dial s-l-o-w-l-y advancing through the hours. Then the digital 24-hour display needed to be reset, as well as the date. Crazy stuff.)
Standard Time is based on the rotation of Earth, and longitude—worldwide. (I recall driving out to the Grand Canyon from Virginia. When travelling west, I went from Eastern time to Central time to Mountain time, then back to central time (after passing from New Mexico into Arizona, which ignores "Savings" time.) Every benefit has a cost.
Bob
bbfarmky
Active Member
I was always annoyed by the time changing demands. The sun is either up or down and I can meet you at an agreed time whether it is up or not. Beyond concise communication what damned difference does it make what time it is?
