Exhausted my first blend kit, I now have a few thoughts and also a few questions.

[WLJayne]

Hey chaps,

Well I still have some seco, ligero and a few wrapper leaves left but I've run out of binder. So time to order some more from WLT. I managed to get about 10 cigars that should be smokable out of the kit, but I wasted probably more than half of it. I figured that would happen while I'm learning and I tried not to cry about it.

The biggest problems I've had so far have been:

- Flattening out the wrapper leaves without downright dunking them in water.
- The binder leaves splitting when I try to roll a tight bunch
- The filler leaves crumbling when I try to bunch.

I was able to save a few bunches by re-binding them, but unless I'm doing something wrong it seems like double binding is essential. There were moments of intense frustration, for sure. All my cigars feel kinda spongy, and if I try to roll tighter I start getting problems. I'm also wondering if I should ditch the mold I bought for now, I worry that it's making bad sticks look ok and not really helping me to get the feel for rolling.

I found the Equador shade wrapper to be a little delicate, but maybe they're all like that? Is there one sold by WLT that is more newbie proof?

I did like the Melodioso blend, but I think I'd like to try a tougher wrapper.

So to distill all my questions down I guess it would be the following:

- Is there a more newb friendly wrapper to try?
- What humidity should I keep my filler leaves at to be dry but not crumbly?
- What should I try to roll a firmer cigar without stressing the binder leaves?

Otherwise I think I did ok, I got five nice ones that I've put bands on and will send out to the chap who 3D printed a mold for me as a thankyou.

Any advice would be much appreciated .

Will.

 

[Knucklehead]

All the shade grown wrapper leaf will be more delicate than the sun grown. If you know ahead of time that you are going to roll some sticks, you can mist the leaf with a spray bottle and leave it in a plastic bag while it hydrates. Some of the leaf will take longer to hydrate than others, you will just have to develop a feel for how much to spray and how long ahead of time to spray. Sometimes a few hours ahead, sometimes overnight. It won't hurt to spray all the leaf and wait overnight. The filler will only need a couple of sprays, the wrapper will require more moisture. I have a separate bag for hydrating wrapper leaf so I don't wet the whole bag. Wrapper leaf needs to be so moist that the remaining leaf can mold if you hydrate the whole bag of wrapper leaf enough for rolling. For storage, just keep it moist enough that it's not crumbly. If the filler leaf is kept in the vapor proof bags you may only have to hydrate the filler every second or third time you roll. If you get it too moist, leave the bag open until it dries down some. I use wooden clothes pins to reseal my bags after rolling the top down a few times.
Filler in low case, dry but not crumbly.
Binder in medium case.
Wrapper in high case. Give it time for the veins to become soft.

 

[WLJayne]

That's great advice, thanks!

I did like the melodioso blend, maybe I should just order a few lb's of the ingredients of that. I think more practice is probaby the most important thing.

 

[webmost]

Hey chaps,

The biggest problems I've had so far have been:

- Flattening out the wrapper leaves without downright dunking them in water.

Downright dunk them in water

- The binder leaves splitting when I try to roll a tight bunch

Your binder needs to be a touch damper

- The filler leaves crumbling when I try to bunch.

Likewise

- Is there a more newb friendly wrapper to try?
- What humidity should I keep my filler leaves at to be dry but not crumbly?
- What should I try to roll a firmer cigar without stressing the binder leaves?

I keep my current rolling materials in a half height Coleman ice chest called a Stacker. I try to keep that chest at about 70-75%. The binder is inside a tupperware where it's a bit damper than that. Before I trim a wrapper leaf, I wet a formica board, spread the leaf out there, and lay a wet towel on it for a couple hours.

There's probably a lot of guys can do it way drier than me.

 

[WLJayne]

That all sounds sensible, I definitely need to work out a good system for storage. Do you have any tips for making the bunch firmer before binding it? I was thinking maybe put the bunch in a sushi rolling mat and just try to roll it into a bit more of a compact state before binding it up and putting it in the mold. Would that work?

 

[waikikigun]

You could look through your leaves for that roll and find a section that can act as a "cigarette paper" pre-binder wrapper. Some guys call this a base leaf. Load your bits in there and wrap that up nice and tight with your fingers, then place that on your binder and wrap again.

Another thing is, some kits have binders that are really small and delicate and those almost require a double-binder. Other bigger binder leaves are much easier to work with in terms of rolling without breaking the binder leaf. But also make sure you're not twisting the whole roll, but rather rolling it evenly, since a twist is more likely to bust the binder. Keep pinching it in and pushing it down and rolling it evenly.

Another thing I do is test the draw on the bunch after I'm done with the mold. If the draw doesn't feel the same as a pro cigar that I test with it, then I don't wrap that bunch. I try to reuse the tobacco in it. So I do quality control at every stage and if anything fails, it stops there.

http://blisscigar.tumblr.com/

 

[WLJayne]

Thanks for the tip about the base leaf! Some of the seco leaves could do that I think, there are a few fairly big ones in the bunch.

 

[waikikigun]

I've been deconstructing cigars for awhile and the base leaf is pretty standard. It's the whole width of a leaf folded in half, main vein still right there in the leaf. So it's like a double-thick pre-binder. The other leaves also are often folded in half with the vein still in. Kinda surprised me to learn this, as I'd always been stripping the main vein out of my filler leaves. I'll post a photo of my latest deconstruction later today.

 

[waikikigun]

Okay, posted one of my deconstructos:

http://blisscigar.tumblr.com/post/116218963701/cigar-archaeology-101-i-like-to-deconstruct-cigars

 

[WLJayne]

Wow that's really helpful! So you have to find a broad filler leaf for your base, then fold it in half and wrap the rest of the filler up in the base leaf? I presume that the vein of the base runs down the length of the cigar?

I'm gussing you'd want to wet the base leaf a bit more like you would your binger. This sounds like it could make your actual binder leaves go a bit further.

 

[waikikigun]

Yes, that is correct. The mystery to me is exactly where all those veins are ending up in the final bunch, in terms of how close they are to the surface or the center. I have to study that a little more closely on my next break-down.

The pre-binder doesn't have to be super moist. A light spritz on each side and let it soak a few minutes. Then you just sort of lay it in your hand. You can see guys doing this in Drew Estate cigar tour videos on youtube.

 

[WLJayne]

Well I just took my remaining seco and ligero and tried it out with the broadest two seco leaves I could find. It actually worked really well! I'm pressing them in the mold now, and I think I'll leave them overnight to really settle. But if I had some of that sumatra binder left to put on top of the base leaf I'm betting it would result in a much tighter cigar.

I think the veins just get pushed in by the mold, I've had some that I was sure would be visible on the final cigar but haven't been thanks to pressing the bunch.

 

[deluxestogie]

In hand-rolling my long filler cigars, I aim for filler leaf that is dry enough to barely crack, but not crumble. Once the filler bunch is assembled in my hand, I use both hands to squeeze it as tightly as possible, hold it, rotate it a bit, squeeze again, hold it, and continue this for 10 to 30 seconds. If the filler is dry enough, then you cannot roll it too tight to draw.

[I stumbled into Nick Perdomo hand-rolling cigars at a JR Outlet in Statesville, NC, years ago. While most customers stood there long enough just to get a free cigar, I observed him for about 30 minutes. He was not using a cigar mold. His perfectly round cigars were the result of the above technique.]

When I'm ready to apply the binder, the filler hardly tries to expand, so this approach takes a lot of stress off the binder. Once the binder is in place, roll the bound bunch between the flat of your hand and the board--like making a snake with modeling clay, to smooth out any lumpiness. Then apply a trimmed, high-case wrapper with only slight stretch.

My experience was that it took me about 30 cigars, rolled then smoked, one at a time, before I could roll a reliably smokable cigar. They weren't consistently presentable until about 100--again, rolled then smoked, one at a time.

If you attempt to learn by rolling 10 at a time in a cigar mold, count that as only one trial per 10 cigars. Cigar rolling is a skill that requires feedback on how you did. Either your mentor has to stand over your shoulder and critique each one as you roll it, or you have to smoke it to find out on your own. Forget about appearance.

• filler: low case
• binder: medium case
• wrapper: high case

Bob

 

[WLJayne]

Thanks Bob, that's really helpful!! A guess a mold doesn't affect how a cigar smokes, so it'd be better to learn freehand I guess . Some great tips there, I'll be sure to try them when my new leaf order gets here.

 

[Smokin Harley]

Hi Will, My first attempt at rolling was buying a Sabroso Medio kit...all leaf designated for each use was already in proper case for its purpose. IF you think you need more moisture for binder ,de-stem it and spray it lightly with distilled water and bag it while you get your table set up .It wont take long to come into case if its a bit on the dry side. I like to take out my filler leaf and portion it out for a 5 stick session so everything is even and a handful of sticks turn out generally the same size which helps get the hang of the bunching and binding. Keep in mind the ribs on the underside of the binder leaf face out when rolled and should always be parallel to the stick. Definitely use a double binder , seems they turn out smoother and the wrapper will lay nicer too. Wrapper leaf ,I used to case it way up but as I get used to rolling ,I am backing off the moisture each session. Yes, I would stay away from the mould for now until you can roll a nice freehander with no soft spots. For now , just roll some about 5-6 inches and 50 ring . Should be plenty of smoke time and give you a nice flavour without it heating up too much as smaller rings tend to do. Bunch and bind on one day , try the rolling the bound sticks in 2 inch strips of paper as a makeshift mould ,set aside for a day/overnight before wrapping. Keep on rolling , nobody expects a perfect stick right away .

 

[WLJayne]

Those are great tips thanks mate! I just ordered another Melodioso Cremosa as well as a Terossa Profundo kit to try. I reckon I should get a good 50 sticks out between the two kits. I'm going to try to do them all freehand and avoid the mould. I've rolled and smoked a few freehand ones already and they've been fine, could be a little tighter but I'll work on that .

 

[dondford]

The OP asked about a "newbie wrapper"; I recomment WLT Pa Oscuro binder. It is inexpensive and the last of pounds I've had +90% were wrapper quality. IMHO, great for learning to wrap before popping for expensive wrapper and of course it's a great binder.

 

[ArizonaDave]

The Habano2000 which should be in momentarily, is probably the best elastic wrapper I've ever tried.

Also, many use a slab of granite to stretch out the wrapper. It will stick to the tile if it's wet. Short of ironing the leaf, or a steam press, this is your best option. I use an 18" X 18" Ceramic tile surface. The tobacco leaf really sticks to that.

 

[Cigar]

I have always loved the Hab2000 wrapper..mainly for the ease of wrapping cant go wrong with it when first starting off in cigar wrapping.


cigar

 

[LewZephyr]

Gunna +1 what Cigar said. Hab2000 is great and forgiving.