What is Mexican San Andres

[bohdan.zaremba]

I've been trying to figure out what San Andres wrappers are. Originally, it seemed to be one of the following:
1. Tobacco grown in a specific region:
As per the name. It has the growing region in the name, which would imply it's simply tobacco that's grown in the San Andres region.
2. A specific variety of tobacco:
I've seen other tobacco leaves grown in a specific region (e.g. Ecuador) also can specify the variety in the name (e.g. Ecuadorian Corojo wrappers). I've never seen MSA wrappers marketed with any variety in the name, it's always "San Andres" or "Mexican San Andres". This would imply that San Andres is a variety of tobacco
3. A method of processing/color grade:
All the MSA cigars I've smoked had distinct dark colour. I've seen more variation in "maduro" color label than I have with MSA. I've seen mentions on this forum that a flame is used to manage humidity of curing MSA leaves.

After some digging, it appears that MSA is all of the above? Can anybody here shed some light on this mysterious (to me, at least) wrapper?

 

[The Haroo ln]

I always thought san andres was the variety/name of the tobacco strain and then mexico was the place it was grown. But i could be wrong. Bob's probably your best bet @deluxestogie . He's very knowledgable.

 

[Tutu]

It’s the variety that is grown in San Andres Tuxtla. Been there several times to deal with farmers / leaf dealers. It’s the variety that has been grown around that area for a long time. Not the only variety, as farmers also grow Habano, and Sumatra. San Andres, all sometimes referred to as Negro San Andres is typically sought for to make maduro cigars, often substituted for Broadleaf when BL is hard to find. One of the interesting characteristics for me is that it San Andres always seems to hold humidity less well, it dries out quicker then other tobaccos do. Lasioderma love San Andres…

 

[deluxestogie]

San Andres variety.

Bob

 

[WillQuantrill]

I've been trying to figure out what San Andres wrappers are. Originally, it seemed to be one of the following:
1. Tobacco grown in a specific region:
As per the name. It has the growing region in the name, which would imply it's simply tobacco that's grown in the San Andres region.
2. A specific variety of tobacco:
I've seen other tobacco leaves grown in a specific region (e.g. Ecuador) also can specify the variety in the name (e.g. Ecuadorian Corojo wrappers). I've never seen MSA wrappers marketed with any variety in the name, it's always "San Andres" or "Mexican San Andres". This would imply that San Andres is a variety of tobacco
3. A method of processing/color grade:
All the MSA cigars I've smoked had distinct dark colour. I've seen more variation in "maduro" color label than I have with MSA. I've seen mentions on this forum that a flame is used to manage humidity of curing MSA leaves.

After some digging, it appears that MSA is all of the above? Can anybody here shed some light on this mysterious (to me, at least) wrapper?

Similar to the St James Perique conundrum. Its even more confusing that a geographic location is in the name. If the San Andreas seed is grown in DR can it still be called "Mexican" or does Gurkha's patent attorneys get involved? Haha

 

[ckreef]

Interesting read considering I have 1 lb of it that I starting to wrap with. I have some coming into case right now and will wrap with them in the next day or two.

Here is 10 cigars I just wrapped with MSA a couple of days ago.

 

[The Haroo ln]

I love maduro cigars but never been a big fan of MSA. For me it too 'chalky' i much prefer broadleaf maduros. I find them sweeter and pleasant

 

[Tutu]

Always going to prefer Broadleaf over San Andres as well, by a mile. I’ve always liked using it as a filler much more than anything else.

 

[deluxestogie]

I used to occasionally enjoy the unique taste of Te Amo cigars as a change of pace from my preferred Honduran cigars. The Te Amo cigars were essentially Negro San Andres puros—filler, binder, wrapper. They were rich and potent.

Then Cigar Aficionado magazine entered the picture in the 1990s, with its rating system. The raters didn't like Te Amo. So eventually, Te Amo cigars went extinct as a direct result.

There are now cigars branded as Te Amo, but they are wrapped in Habano wrappers: a different cigar.

Bob

EDIT: I should add that the cigars that I rolled from San Andres leaf that I grew simply tasted like a generic, nice cigar. They lacked the tang of the traditional, fire curing used in Mexico.

 

[bohdan.zaremba]

Similar to the St James Perique conundrum. Its even more confusing that a geographic location is in the name. If the San Andreas seed is grown in DR can it still be called "Mexican" or does Gurkha's patent attorneys get involved? Haha

What's the story about Gurkha's patent lawyers?

 

[bohdan.zaremba]

San Andres variety.

Bob

Thanks Bob

 

[bohdan.zaremba]

Interesting read considering I have 1 lb of it that I starting to wrap with. I have some coming into case right now and will wrap with them in the next day or two.

Here is 10 cigars I just wrapped with MSA a couple of days ago.
View attachment 59495

The MSA that you have, did you grow it yourself, or did you buy it?

 

[bohdan.zaremba]

I used to occasionally enjoy the unique taste of Te Amo cigars as a change of pace from my preferred Honduran cigars. The Te Amo cigars were essentially Negro San Andres puros—filler, binder, wrapper. They were rich and potent.

Then Cigar Aficionado magazine entered the picture in the 1990s, with its rating system. The raters didn't like Te Amo. So eventually, Te Amo cigars went extinct as a direct result.

There are now cigars branded as Te Amo, but they are wrapped in Habano wrappers: a different cigar.

Bob

EDIT: I should add that the cigars that I rolled from San Andres leaf that I grew simply tasted like a generic, nice cigar. They lacked the tang of the traditional, fire curing used in Mexico.

I'm guessing those ratings were taking seriously back in the day. Today, these ratings seem like white noise to me

 

[WillQuantrill]

What's the story about Gurkha's patent lawyers?

Gurkha Cigar, according to the interwebs, has 105 blends it puts out every year. While the marketing imagery is appealing, I would imagine it becomes difficult to come up with distinct names after 30-40. In 2023 they sued Davidoff for using "Dragon" in a blend saying in the world of cigars they owned the trademark. Given that it was in reference to "Year Of The Dragon" my personal opinion is that it was more about muscling out market share in Asia. While I hear tell Gurkha was top notch 30 years ago, these days they are known as a marketing company that happens to sell cigars. My personal experience with most of their blends would confirm that.

Davidoff Asks Court to Dismiss Gurkha's Dragon Lawsuit

Last week, Davidoff asked a federal court to throw out Gurkha's Year of the Dragon-related lawsuit.

halfwheel.com

 

[OrlandoJoe]

Always going to prefer Broadleaf over San Andres as well, by a mile. I’ve always liked using it as a filler much more than anything else.

As a cigar smoker, I appreciate the sweetness of both Connecticut Broadleaf, and San Andreas (used to be called just 'Mexican'). I am nothing remotely an expert. I have an untrained palate, and for me, Broadleaf has more complexity, and the San Andres seems to me to appear in more affordable cigars as filler and binder. Maybe a function of the cost to grow?

 

[ckreef]

The MSA that you have, did you grow it yourself, or did you buy it?

Bought it from LO. Maybe next year I'll try growing some tobacco.

 

[bohdan.zaremba]

Bought it from LO. Maybe next year I'll try growing some tobacco.

Let me know if you find a place that sells MSA seeds

 

[ShiniKoroshi]

Let me know if you find a place that sells MSA seeds

But nobody has seeds. However, Don has 100 lb of wrappers. https://wholeleaftobacco.com/collections/cigar-wrapper-binder/products/san-andres-wrapper

So what tobacco of Don's could I fill this with to make a mild to medium cigar?

 

[bohdan.zaremba]

But nobody has seeds. However, Don has 100 lb of wrappers. https://wholeleaftobacco.com/collections/cigar-wrapper-binder/products/san-andres-wrapper

So what tobacco of Don's could I fill this with to make a mild to medium cigar?

Sorry friend, you're asking the wrong guy, I got 0 rolling or blending experience. This is my first season of growing, and I won't get my hands on whole leaf tobacco until later in the year, when I visit a friend in the states. Shipping to Canada is extremely expensive.

 

[ShiniKoroshi]

Sorry friend, you're asking the wrong guy, I got 0 rolling or blending experience. This is my first season of growing, and I won't get my hands on whole leaf tobacco until later in the year, when I visit a friend in the states. Shipping to Canada is extremely expensive.

Yeah, sucks being a smoker in Canada, hopefully all that will change one day. But the question was for the broader audience who has more experience.

Searching "Andres" here turned up a lot of results, the consensus being that home grown won't be the same because of differences in curing and fermentation. Connecticut Broadleaf and Corojo 99 seemed to be favored instead. Honestly, I would look at varieties developed in the north for growing in Canada. This one in particular caught my attention as it was developed in Canada.
http://nwtseeds.com/L'Assomption.htm